Identify the PreWarCar owned by my grandfather

John,

A belated addendum and, in the process, a more likely identification. I now think that the Clement Greswell is Clement HUGH Greswell so not my grandfather Clement John. Clement Hugh, born 1891,was a pilot and a Captain in the RFC. His main claim to fame is as an early pioneer of airmail and flew the inaugural Aerial Post flight in front of the king in 1917. This might also explain the affording of 2 Rolls Royces.

John,

thanks for the very positive ID of the car. I have no idea how my grandfather managed to afford the car or why he should change from one to another. I never knew him as he died in 1940 and sadly my grandmother too is no longer with us so those questions will never be answered. As already mentioned her served in the army . As to his possibly being a Flying Officer, that is not possible. The RAF did not form until 1918 and the RFC used army ranks. I am sure being ex-RAF pilot myself, I would have known if he had served with the RFC.

There is no doubt as to his identity though. Greswell is a very unusual and thus traceable surname and only two show up on any of the ancestry search sites, my grandfather and great grandfather

I think therefore that we have gone as far as we can possibly go on this one but it has been a fascinating exercise and I am indebted to you for your contribution.

Many, many thanks,
Ian

Tom Clarke is the expert on coachwork, and he says the photo shows a Salmons body, so the car is 40PB.

40PB was a 1914 Silver Ghost. The build sheet says it was a Colonial type chassis with a London/Edinburgh engine and a plain bonnet. Greswell was the fourth owner, in 1917.

Now why did Greswell own 40 PB in 1917 when he had owned a newer car, 21BD, in 1916? And how did the son of a rural vicar become rich enough to buy a slightly used Rolls-Royce cars? Did he marry a rich wife?

My source for this information is "The Edwardian Rolls-Royce", an essential tool for pre WW1 Rolls-Royce aficionados. In the entry for 21BD, the owner in 1916 is Clement Greswell, The Aerodrome, Hendon. The entry for 40PB says Capt. C. Greswell, Hendon, 1917. Was your grandfather a flying officer perhaps?

Alas neither car is known to be with us today.

Stanley S Bond of Wimbledon and Aberdeenshire owned a new Barker landaulette chassis 60RB. Your photo does not show a landaulette.
A.E, Bond owned from new chassis 2341 "a duplicate of 1701". Your photo does not look like 1701.

Your Greswell ancestor looks more hopeful. He owned chassis 40PB in 1917 and chassis 21BD in 1916. His address is given as Hendon.
40PB was a Salmons tourer and 21BD was an HJ Mulliner tourer. His full name is given as Captain Clement Greswell.

If you think Captain Greswell is a possibility, I'll try to decide on which car is in the photo.

Thank you both for the identification and I am sorry for the surname red herring. I should have said that my grandfather (or great-grandfather) is on my mother's side so the surname will be either Greswell or Bond. Since the car is a Rolls-Royce, Bond is more likely, I regret that I don't know when the picture was taken but an indication of the age of the car might instead help me identify the driver. The location is most likely in the vicinity of Stone, Gloucestershire.

This forum is now providing the unexpected bonus of helping me with my family tree research!

Ian Hartley

I doubt grandfather's name was Hartley. There are three Hartleys listed in "The Edwardian Rolls-Royce", namely C.R. Hartley with 14EB, which was a limousine; Derek Hartley with 2018 in 1968. and George Hartley with 1676 in 1980.

It is quite possible the limousine body listed for 14EB was not built and a touring body was installed instead. C.R. Hartley was in Hove, Sussex; a H.W. Rudd in London had the car by November 1919.

It will be interesting to see Ian Hartley's response to the first comment.

Cheers - John.

Dear Sirs,

This is a Rolls Royce Silver Ghost . Is the name of the driver Hartley too ? Where and when was the picture taken ?